I read about Dumbledore being gay this morning and I was very happy. Finding out was not only exciting finding a gay in Harry Potter books, but also it was very interesting to find a deeper side to Dumbledore.
I have to say
And I didn't expect it
It's afraid it's going to defile the non sexual relationship between him and Harry though seeing as they were so close, because of all fanfiction and teacherstudent crap that's going to follow =/
JK's a Hack. She's milking it for all it's worth. It's pathetic really. She needed to get off the internet, stop reading her fanfiction and learn how to write. She is certainly not the greatest writer of the century.
Yeah, I laughed and smiled a lot when I read that yesterday.
However, I suspect that it's not so much that Dumbledore is "gay" in the sense that post-Grindelwald he went around thinking "oooh that guy over there is so hot" but rather, he was attracted to intelligence and the only person that was ever on-par with him was Grindelwald. Therefore Dumbledore fell in love with him. I don't think that we're supposed to think of him as a very sexual person, because I don't really think he was. Gelert was probably the only person he was ever in love with, Snape/Lily style.
Maybe part of the reason he was sympathetic to Snape is he'd had a similar heartbreak he'd never gotten over.
At any rate, it adds a whole new dimension to Dumbledore's character, and I'm glad JK told us.
very interesting thought. First, I also don't see Dumbledore as a sexual person myself. He, as Snape, experimented unrequited love. Snape saw Lily turn to what he thought was the worst thing for her (going out with James) and Dumbledore saw Gellert become a madman. Maybe Dumbledore suspected Snape loved Lily before Snape decided to betray voldemort, and saw himself in the way Snape loved Lily. But for Dumbledore, there was maybe a connection between Snape and Grindelwald: he was not able to save the man he loved from the "dark side", but he does try so with Snape, and succeds...
thanks for sharing your thoughts, very interesting!
Honestly, I was a little bothered by the news, but really just because I don't like to think of Dumbledore having any sexuality at all. It totally fits though, and I really wasn't all that surprised.
I think it was the perfect decision for Rowling to leave the whole issue out of the books though, because it shows that somebody can be gay without a huge amount of debate and fuss. It doesn't have to be a big deal. I know people will turn it into one, but at least in the world of HP it doesn't have to be.
yup I agree. I'm not complaining she left that out of the books, because HP is not about sexuality or sexual preference, it's all about love (didn't that sound awfully cheesy, eh? )
But yes, there is a debate now for sure. Maybe Rowling herself doesn't realise how big this is. It's a huge step forward in child literature, and it was about time someone did something like this!
I don't think it's about courage. But more about the fact that saying explicitely that he's gay would have ment talking about sexuality in the books, and she chose not to. If she would have talked about it for Dumbledore, than she should have done so with everyone, and that is not the subject of the books. And I think that people would not have read through some parts of the books the same way they would have if they knew he was gay. People would have thought that Dumbledore might be a pedophile, inviting Harry in his office, giving snape a second chance, and being the headmaster of a school of kids. It could have been mistaken for pedophilia by some dumb, close minded people and it could have brought prejudice to the real message of the books!
mmmm....yes, yes, you are probabily right. there's so much people who believe gay = pedophile...it's just i really didn't like the 7th book, so i think it would have been different if we would have know that Dumbledore was gay.
I find this so funny because of all the characters fans would have died to hear wee gay, he probably wasn't the one, but I still think its good, a lot of time I find if you have a gay character there is more time spent on there being gay then on there character, after all being gay or bi or straight is only a small part of who someone is and in HP's case I am glad that the story was more impotent then this fact coming out in it, because it wouldn't have added to the story but taken away from what was impotent, yet at the same time I love how divers all her characters are ^^ I hope that made sence >.>
Reading the last book I kind of had a feeling about his relationship with Grindelwald, but I didn't know whether it was my slash fan mind just seeing things or was it really there. The tell-all that Rita Skeeter was writing seemed to hint at it, but then I dismissed it because that character makes things up anyway.
I honestly think this is great news, but now there are going to be those same Christians that hated the series before going up in arms saying "omg the evol ghey!" And then there's going to be the homophobes that loved the series that will hate it now. And the people that will look at Dumbledore's relationship with Harry as some form of pedophilia.
I thought that she was very brave to say it. (even if it was for attention) Hell, the series is over and she already has everyones money. So she can say what she wants.
I don't mind or really care... but it bothers me that JKR keeps distributing important information via INTERVIEWS. Like, couldn't she have cut out some of the camping crap and stuck in some of the things she keeps telling us? People aren't going to be reading the interviews a hundred years from now, just the book. If she saw fit to tell us stuff like this at all, why doesn't she think it important enough to put in the BOOKS?
No, not really. But it's very good to know that some people in child literature are ready to take risks, to show that some things considered "unnatural" by some are part of people that can play major roles in life. Even if it's fiction, there is still some kind of impact. Just like making the hero of a superhero cartoon a black gay for instance. It triggers something in the masses, if you see what I mean!
Hm. Hm. Hmmm.
I dunno. I feel ambiguous about that revelation. Being gay myself I of course like the idea that one of the most positive and loveable characters of Rowling's novels is gay. That's a good thing. On the other hand I have to say I really do not like what "gay" means for people who belong to this crazy HP-fandom. Being gay is not the same as "yaoi" and has nothing to do with "kawaii" and "person X person". While I'm sure that Rowling knows what she's talking about when she announces one of her characters to be gay I'm not so sure about the fans. I'm sick of all those crazy gay pairings. Sick of Draco asking Harry "will you be my UKE tonite?". Sorry, I know this sounds incredibly closed-minded but I don't like the fact that this revelation will result in raising numbers of DumbledoreXGrindelwald "Uke seme kawaiii" stories in which what it means to be gay is perverted into a 12 year old girl's wet dream.
So yeah, as I said. My feelings are ambiguous. And I find it sad that they are because it SHOULD make me happy that Rowling "didn't forget about us".
Oh, I so agree with you. There will be (unfortunately) a whole bunch of fans who like slash and fantasm about it who will write this pairing. I don't like slash simply because people generally don't write it correctly. It's just, you know, like watching a porn movie. Dude1 lusts for Dude2 and they have hot steamy gay sex. Most fans of yaoi just write it for those scenes, and most of them are not gay.
Its the same as guys thinking that lesbians are hot girls who jump on other girls all the time, they find it sexy and fanatazise about it, and are only fed on supid clichés. Being gay is not the problem at all, it's the fact that people don't go further than the aspect of two people of the same gender having sex etc... I personnaly find this gross and disrespectful towards gay and lesbians, in a certain way...
The perfect counter example is "Brokeback Mountain" because it was all about feelings, it was subtle, not too much, and totally believable...
But I do think it's a great thing for younger readers: Dumbledore is a mentor figure, and a very wise, powerful and good man. If that can be associated with "gay" in their minds, I personnally think it's a good thing. It's risky, but it's time that child literature stopped being so "conservative" and gave minorities bigger parts. Dumbledore being gay is a huge step forward in my opinion!
Glad to have yours, by the way! I was wondering how gay people would react in fact. Thanks a lot for your message!
Haha - I really like your comparison of yaoi-fandom to straight guys drooling over lesbians I'll remember that one for my next argument on "why yaoi-fans do not REALLY make gay people's life easier"
And I totally agree on what you've said about Brokeback Mountain. That was an incredibly sensitive movie. What I particularly liked about it was that it wasn't really about GAY people but about how hate, ignorance and fear can destroy love and the chance for happiness. Well, of course it was about gay people since both protagonists were male but it didn't satisfy any clichés. How hearts and hopes decay when being forced to hide Shakespeare told us already 400 years ago Sad thing everyone cried for Romeo + Juliet but only few people are willing to accept Ennis' + Jack's love - Accepting gay people as they are, without turning them into walking clichés or beating the shit out of them, doesn't happen often these days.
Yikes, that was totally off-topic
btw: I'm taking a seminar on new trends in children's literature this semester. We'll talk about gender issues in contemporary children's novels in one session and the instructor promised me she'll introduce some books that feature either gay characters OR otherwise address the topic. I'm looking forward to that session. In case you're interested I'll drop you a line about those books once the session is over
That said, I do agree with you that it's important to adress "problematic" topics in children's literature. As I said, I'm somewhat glad Dumbledore is gay because he's such a positive character. It's not Rowling's conceptualization of Dumbledore I find alarming, only what those crazy fans will make out of it
No need to thank me, btw I'm very much enjoying for this little conversation of ours, so thank _you_ for your thoughts!
I agree. Now mind you, I HAVE read some of those crazy yaoi fanfics and stuff...and have liked them, but I don't read them all the time. I'm actually VERY picky about what I read, even amoungst the het fiction. I MUCH prefer a believable plot line, hopefully believable thoughts and feeling between said male characters, and much less sex involved in said stories. Sometimes you can find those. But those are harder to find, unfortunately. *sigh*
But I also agree with you on Dumbledore. It's nice to have a character who has been seen as a good man and mentor, and even though he's gay, hopefully, still be seen as a good man and mentor in the younger people.
You know, I think I have to agree with you on that one... While I kind of like "crazy gay pairings" (mostly because they are, in fact, crazy), "a 12 year old girl's wet dreams" is just gross, distorted and... well, unrealistic and unemotional :S
Well, you get what I mean I agree with you, I just don't have my way with words...